No subject
Wed Jul 15 09:27:57 PDT 2009
h
each version of PostgreSQL if they package PostGIS at all. I just helped a
client port their database to an ubuntu server on a different host and the
stable on Ubuntu 10 is 8.4 with PostGIS 1.4.=C2=A0 In fact even the backpor=
ts
that have PostgreSQL 9.0, I can't find 1.5 so had to compile ourselves to
get 1.5.=C2=A0 This is not something most users new to PostgreSQL or PostGI=
S will
be willing to do. So the reality is if they want to stay stable they'll be
using 8.2 with 1.4.=C2=A0 Similar story with centos.=C2=A0 Yum rpms package=
s just one
version of PostGIS with 8.4 and 9.0.=C2=A0 For 9.0 it's 1.5.
If we don't make release before=C2=A0 the PostgreSQL 9.1 cut (which I real=
ly
fear given all we need to test and=C2=A0 finish), we are going to have a lo=
t of
new users starting off their PostGIS experience on 1.5 and it's going to be
next to impossible to get them to upgrade.
If you are at all concerned about new users, you need to take this into
consideration.=C2=A0 The ratio=C2=A0 of new users is exponential so that I =
suspect in
a year's time if it is not the case already we will have a lot more new
users with less than 1 years experience with PostGIS / PostgreSQL=C2=A0 tha=
n we
have users with more than 1 years experience.
Thanks,
Regina
-----Original Message-----
From: postgis-devel-bounces at postgis.refractions.net
[mailto:postgis-devel-bounces at postgis.refractions.net] On Behalf Of Paul
Ramsey
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:54 PM
To: PostGIS Development Discussion
Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote to officially drop support for
PostgreSQL 8.3 in PostGIS 2.0
-1 means "veto and I'll do what it takes to make my position stick".
So you're OK being 8.3 compatibility tester and fixer?
P.
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Mark Cave-Ayland
<mark.cave-ayland at siriusit.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14/04/11 12:02, Paragon Corporation wrote:
>
>> I hereby call a PSC Vote to officially drop support for PostgreSQL=20
>> 8.3 in PostGIS 2.0.
>>
>> I think enough has been said on the topic that it is clear to me=20
>> PostgreSQL
>> 8.3 is becoming a bit of a burden to maintain for both regression=20
>> testing and as well as having to hold back on features introduced in=20
>> newer versions of PostgreSQL.
>>
>> With this official drop we will then be available to take advantage=20
>> of
>>
>> 1) Window functions, CTES, variadic functions, RETURN QUERY EXECUTE,=20
>> CASE in pl/pgsql, EXECUTE using, user-defined exceptions,
>> =C2=A0 and a slew of other features itemized in PostgreSQL feature matri=
x=20
>> http://www.postgresql.org/about/featurematrix
>>
>> 2) Not have to regress test against 8.3 any longer
>> 3) Get rid of the stupid hack we have in place for pgxs
>> 4) Get rid of that conditional logic we have in place for aggregation=20
>> to handle versions that don't support windowing
>>
>> This is just one step, but my more aggressive requirement which I=20
>> shall put in as a second PSC Vote, is to not support more than
>> 3 versions of PostgreSQL on any version of PostGIS unless there are=20
>> extenuating circumstances. =C2=A0More on that later.
>>
>> All PSC voters, please give your vote.
>
> I'm probably in the minority, but -1 from me.
>
>
> ATB,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Cave-Ayland - Senior Technical Architect PostgreSQL - PostGIS=20
> Sirius Corporation plc - control through freedom=20
> http://www.siriusit.co.uk
> t: +44 870 608 0063
>
> Sirius Labs: http://www.siriusit.co.uk/labs=20
> _______________________________________________
> postgis-devel mailing list
> postgis-devel at postgis.refractions.net
> http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-devel
>
_______________________________________________
postgis-devel mailing list
postgis-devel at postgis.refractions.net
http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-devel
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">02c worth strictly from a user's perspective:=
<br><br>New users will generally start with current latest versions. So th=
ey should be fine.<br><br>Old users who have difficulty upgrading. (Oft tim=
es me :-) my call. If I need Postgis to work with 8.3, I use v1.5, if I nee=
d later Postgis functionailty, I upgrade. I still have a choice, as long as=
the older versions are available, even if they are no longer officially su=
pported. <br><br>The rate of development of Postgis & Postgres is great=
. I'd sooner see the developers free to develop, making the most of their v=
aluable & appreciated time, rather than spending time just keeping olde=
r Postgres versions supported.<br><br>Thanks everyone!<br><br> Brent =
Wood<br><br>--- On <b>Fri, 4/22/11, Paragon Corporation <i><lr at pcorp.us&=
gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 1=
6,
255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Paragon Corporation =
<lr at pcorp.us><br>Subject: Re: [postgis-users] [postgis-devel] PSC Vot=
e to officially drop support for PostgreSQL 8.3 in PostGIS 2.0<br>To: "'Pos=
tGIS Development Discussion'" <postgis-devel at postgis.refractions.net>=
<br>Cc: "'PostGIS Users Discussion'" <postgis-users at postgis.refractions.=
net><br>Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 12:57 PM<br><br><div class=3D"plai=
nMail"><br>Mark,<br>Agree with Paul -- we did say all PSC should at least f=
eel comfortable with<br>our position and be able to defend it. Though=
probably something we need to<br>clarify in our voting rules.<br><br>I've =
cc'd the regular users group since I feel they would be most affected<br>by=
this decision and would like to hear their opinions on it. <br><br>F=
irst let's keep things in perspective. We are talking about not havin=
g<br>support for PostgreSQL 8.3 for PostGIS 2.0. We will still
do our duty and<br>support PostgreSQL 8.3 on PostGIS 1.3-1.5 and if we don=
't have to worry<br>about also supporting it on 2.0, we'll have many more c=
ycles to support<br>issues that arise in 1.3-1.5.<br><br><br>More food for =
thought -<br>From all the signals I have seen, I just feel trying to suppor=
t PostgreSQL<br>8.3 on PostGIS 2.0 is a really bad idea.<br><br>I will add =
this. It's not just the testing, it=E2=80=99s the fact that requiring=
<br>our 2.0 code work on PostgreSQL 8.3 is going to slow our release as all=
<br>PostGIS developers will need to limit their feature set to work on 8.3 =
and<br>avoid new features that will make programming easier and more effici=
ent. We<br>have much more plpgsql code in PostGIS 2.0, than we have e=
ver had in prior<br>versions, which makes the task much more difficult.&nbs=
p; <br><br>From what I can gather most distros package just one version of =
PostGIS with<br>each version of PostgreSQL if they package PostGIS at all.
I just helped a<br>client port their database to an ubuntu server on a dif=
ferent host and the<br>stable on Ubuntu 10 is 8.4 with PostGIS 1.4. I=
n fact even the backports<br>that have PostgreSQL 9.0, I can't find 1.5 so =
had to compile ourselves to<br>get 1.5. This is not something most us=
ers new to PostgreSQL or PostGIS will<br>be willing to do. So the reality i=
s if they want to stay stable they'll be<br>using 8.2 with 1.4. Simil=
ar story with centos. Yum rpms packages just one<br>version of PostGI=
S with 8.4 and 9.0. For 9.0 it's 1.5.<br><br> If we don't make releas=
e before the PostgreSQL 9.1 cut (which I really<br>fear given all we =
need to test and finish), we are going to have a lot of<br>new users =
starting off their PostGIS experience on 1.5 and it's going to be<br>next t=
o impossible to get them to upgrade.<br><br>If you are at all concerned abo=
ut new users, you need to take this into<br>consideration. The
ratio of new users is exponential so that I suspect in<br>a year's t=
ime if it is not the case already we will have a lot more new<br>users with=
less than 1 years experience with PostGIS / PostgreSQL than we<br>ha=
ve users with more than 1 years experience.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Regina<br><br=
>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a ymailto=3D"mailto:postgis-devel-bou=
nces at postgis.refractions.net" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dpostgis-devel-bounce=
s at postgis.refractions.net">postgis-devel-bounces at postgis.refractions.net</a=
><br>[mailto:<a ymailto=3D"mailto:postgis-devel-bounces at postgis.refractions=
.net" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dpostgis-devel-bounces at postgis.refractions.ne=
t">postgis-devel-bounces at postgis.refractions.net</a>] On Behalf Of Paul<br>=
Ramsey<br>Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:54 PM<br>To: PostGIS Development=
Discussion<br>Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote to officially drop sup=
port for<br>PostgreSQL 8.3 in PostGIS 2.0<br><br>-1 means "veto and I'll do=
what
it takes to make my position stick".<br>So you're OK being 8.3 compatibili=
ty tester and fixer?<br><br>P.<br><br>On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Mar=
k Cave-Ayland<br><<a ymailto=3D"mailto:mark.cave-ayland at siriusit.co.uk" =
href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dmark.cave-ayland at siriusit.co.uk">mark.cave-ayland@=
siriusit.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>> On 14/04/11 12:02, Paragon Corporatio=
n wrote:<br>><br>>> I hereby call a PSC Vote to officially drop su=
pport for PostgreSQL <br>>> 8.3 in PostGIS 2.0.<br>>><br>>&g=
t; I think enough has been said on the topic that it is clear to me <br>>=
;> PostgreSQL<br>>> 8.3 is becoming a bit of a burden to maintain =
for both regression <br>>> testing and as well as having to hold back=
on features introduced in <br>>> newer versions of PostgreSQL.<br>&g=
t;><br>>> With this official drop we will then be available to tak=
e advantage <br>>> of<br>>><br>>> 1) Window functions,
CTES, variadic functions, RETURN QUERY EXECUTE, <br>>> CASE in pl/pg=
sql, EXECUTE using, user-defined exceptions,<br>>> and a slew =
of other features itemized in PostgreSQL feature matrix <br>>> <a hre=
f=3D"http://www.postgresql.org/about/featurematrix" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.postgresql.org/about/featurematrix</a><br>>><br>>> 2) Not=
have to regress test against 8.3 any longer<br>>> 3) Get rid of the =
stupid hack we have in place for pgxs<br>>> 4) Get rid of that condit=
ional logic we have in place for aggregation <br>>> to handle version=
s that don't support windowing<br>>><br>>> This is just one ste=
p, but my more aggressive requirement which I <br>>> shall put in as =
a second PSC Vote, is to not support more than<br>>> 3 versions of Po=
stgreSQL on any version of PostGIS unless there are <br>>> extenuatin=
g circumstances. More on that later.<br>>><br>>> All
PSC voters, please give your vote.<br>><br>> I'm probably in the min=
ority, but -1 from me.<br>><br>><br>> ATB,<br>><br>> Mark.<b=
r>><br>> --<br>> Mark Cave-Ayland - Senior Technical Architect Pos=
tgreSQL - PostGIS <br>> Sirius Corporation plc - control through freedom=
<br>> <a href=3D"http://www.siriusit.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">http://ww=
w.siriusit.co.uk</a><br>> t: +44 870 608 0063<br>><br>> Sirius Lab=
s: <a href=3D"http://www.siriusit.co.uk/labs" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
siriusit.co.uk/labs</a> <br>> __________________________________________=
_____<br>> postgis-devel mailing list<br>> <a ymailto=3D"mailto:postg=
is-devel at postgis.refractions.net" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dpostgis-devel at po=
stgis.refractions.net">postgis-devel at postgis.refractions.net</a><br>> <a=
href=3D"http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-devel"
target=3D"_blank">http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-=
devel</a><br>><br>_______________________________________________<br>pos=
tgis-devel mailing list<br><a ymailto=3D"mailto:postgis-devel at postgis.refra=
ctions.net" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dpostgis-devel at postgis.refractions.net"=
>postgis-devel at postgis.refractions.net</a><br><a href=3D"http://postgis.ref=
ractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-devel" target=3D"_blank">http://postg=
is.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-devel</a><br>------------------=
-----------------------<br>The substance of this message, including any att=
achments, may be<br>confidential, legally privileged and/or exempt from dis=
closure pursuant to<br>Massachusetts law. It is intended solely for the add=
ressee. If you received<br>this in error, please contact the sender and del=
ete the material from any<br>computer.<br><br><br>_________________________=
______________________<br>postgis-users mailing list<br><a
ymailto=3D"mailto:postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net" href=3D"/mc/compo=
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